From mail at tobyinkster.co.uk Mon Oct 5 08:21:53 2009 From: mail at tobyinkster.co.uk (Toby Inkster) Date: Mon Oct 5 08:21:59 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] 18 months Message-ID: <1254756113.9495.29.camel@ophelia2.g5n.co.uk> Given that it's been 19 months now, has Andy Mabbett's 18 month ban been lifted? http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-March/011674.html -- Toby A Inkster From mark at markwunsch.com Mon Oct 5 08:33:58 2009 From: mark at markwunsch.com (Mark Wunsch) Date: Mon Oct 5 08:57:21 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] hRecipe on FoodNetwork.com Message-ID: <1b7e4d860910050833k14144679y411283f14c1cce10@mail.gmail.com> Hello Microformaters, I'm really pleased to announce that FoodNetwork.com has recently rolled out hRecipe on its recipes! We've been observing the development of hRecipe and thank Thomas Loertsch, et al. for the great work in detailing the specification. We hope our implementation helps move the draft to a full-fledged standard. You can now view recipes from the likes of Food Network Kitchens, Alton Brown, Bobby Flay, Giada De Laurentiis, Paula Deen, Rachael Ray, Mario Batali, Emeril Lagasse, and more in a wonderful machine-readable form. It is the goal of Scripps Networks Interactive (NASDAQ: SNI) to be the world's largest distributor of hRecipe marked recipes before the end of Q2 2010 when we roll out the spec onhttp://www.recipezaar.com. Anxious to hear comments, feedback, and anything we can do to help the microformats community. Great work! -Mark Wunsch Front End Engineer Scripps Networks Interactive mwunsch@scrippsnetworks.com From glenn.jones at madgex.com Tue Oct 6 05:06:59 2009 From: glenn.jones at madgex.com (Glenn Jones) Date: Tue Oct 6 05:09:38 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Ident Engine Message-ID: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF03B1B8C0@MOBY.Clarence.local> Hi All I have built a little JavaScript library that combines Social Graph data and parsing of open data sources such as microformats. http://identengine.com/ http://www.alistapart.com/articles/discovering-magic/ Earlier this year Chris Messina made the passing comment that the techniques I demoed involved too much hoop jumping to be of practical use. I built this library to see if I could lower the barrier of entry. A List Apart published an article I have written on the libraries architecture. The library makes extensive use of both the Google's Social Graph API and Yahoo's YQL. It all under a MIT license Try out the demo's Glenn Jones From andr3.pt at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 08:18:57 2009 From: andr3.pt at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Lu=EDs?=) Date: Wed Oct 7 08:19:06 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Ident Engine In-Reply-To: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF03B1B8C0@MOBY.Clarence.local> References: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF03B1B8C0@MOBY.Clarence.local> Message-ID: Glenn, thank you (once again) for your effort. This is *huge*. I believe it *does* lower the barrier of using identity discovery. Specially given the level of interest around js. And thank you for including a note on progressive enhancement on your ALA article. ;) Meanwhile, I've pimped the lib around the office and some of them are sending me feeback on some of the tests they ran. Would you be interested in checking some of the faulty results? One of them got a sgn:// "template" URLs from myspace in one of your demos. Cheers, -- Andr? Lu?s On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Glenn Jones wrote: > Hi All > > I have built a little JavaScript library that combines Social Graph data > and parsing of open data sources such as microformats. > > http://identengine.com/ > http://www.alistapart.com/articles/discovering-magic/ > > Earlier this year Chris Messina made the passing comment that the > techniques I demoed involved too much hoop jumping to be of practical > use. I built this library to see if I could lower the barrier of entry. > A List Apart published an article I have written on the libraries > architecture. > > The library makes extensive use of both the Google's Social Graph API > and Yahoo's YQL. It all under a MIT license > > Try out the demo's > > Glenn Jones > > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > From glenn.jones at madgex.com Thu Oct 8 02:24:01 2009 From: glenn.jones at madgex.com (Glenn Jones) Date: Thu Oct 8 02:26:37 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Ident Engine In-Reply-To: References: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF03B1B8C0@MOBY.Clarence.local> Message-ID: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF03B1BD77@MOBY.Clarence.local> Hi Andr? Thanks for the nice comments about the identity work. Can you email me a quick summary of the errors off the list and I will have look. Like microformats one of the aims of identity consolidation should be to surface the data so that it is not hidden from the user. This is especially important when rel=me linking goes wrong, users want to explore the issue themselves. I had this conversation Brad Fitzpatrick the creator of the Google Social Graph API earlier this year. We both agreed we need to build some sort of visualisation tool to explore social graphs. I think I have achieved this for profiles with Ident Engines. You can see what profile information is store about you and where, but I have yet to look at visualisation of the rel=me linkages. More importantly found a way to allow users to explore issues with their own graph. The tool I use the most at the moment is: http://identengine.com/debug/debug-identites.htm It's only a linear list, but sometimes help me find rogue relationships Glenn -----Original Message----- From: microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org [mailto:microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org] On Behalf Of Andr? Lu?s Sent: 07 October 2009 16:19 To: Microformats Discuss Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] Ident Engine Glenn, thank you (once again) for your effort. This is *huge*. I believe it *does* lower the barrier of using identity discovery. Specially given the level of interest around js. And thank you for including a note on progressive enhancement on your ALA article. ;) Meanwhile, I've pimped the lib around the office and some of them are sending me feeback on some of the tests they ran. Would you be interested in checking some of the faulty results? One of them got a sgn:// "template" URLs from myspace in one of your demos. Cheers, -- Andr? Lu?s On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Glenn Jones wrote: > Hi All > > I have built a little JavaScript library that combines Social Graph data > and parsing of open data sources such as microformats. > > http://identengine.com/ > http://www.alistapart.com/articles/discovering-magic/ > > Earlier this year Chris Messina made the passing comment that the > techniques I demoed involved too much hoop jumping to be of practical > use. I built this library to see if I could lower the barrier of entry. > A List Apart published an article I have written on the libraries > architecture. > > The library makes extensive use of both the Google's Social Graph API > and Yahoo's YQL. It all under a MIT license > > Try out the demo's > > Glenn Jones > > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From andr3.pt at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 04:53:48 2009 From: andr3.pt at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Lu=EDs?=) Date: Thu Oct 8 04:54:02 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Ident Engine In-Reply-To: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF03B1BD77@MOBY.Clarence.local> References: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF03B1B8C0@MOBY.Clarence.local> <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF03B1BD77@MOBY.Clarence.local> Message-ID: Hi Glenn, comments inline. On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Glenn Jones wrote: > Hi Andr? > > Thanks for the nice comments about the identity work. Can you email me a quick summary of the errors off the list and I will have look. > You deserve it. And I will ask them for details and fwd them to you. > Like microformats one of the aims of identity consolidation should be to surface the data so that it is not hidden from the user. ?This is especially important when rel=me linking goes wrong, users want to explore the issue themselves. I had this conversation Brad Fitzpatrick the creator of the Google Social Graph API earlier this year. We both agreed we need to build some sort of visualisation tool to explore social graphs. > > I think I have achieved this for profiles with Ident Engines. You can see what profile information is store about you and where, but I have yet to look at visualisation of the rel=me linkages. More importantly found a way to allow users to explore issues with their own graph. > > The tool I use the most at the moment is: > > http://identengine.com/debug/debug-identites.htm > > It's only a linear list, but sometimes help me find rogue relationships > Right! At least it allows people to take care of the "weeds" in their social graph. Funny. One of the comments I heard when someone was trying it out was: "hey! I've told them [whoever they might be] to remove that site/link!!" hahaha Apparently he didn't know someone was still linking an extinct website as his somewhere. :) As for visualization of the social graph, I've been using http://workshop.andr3.net/xfnexplorer/ but it's very very slow, limited to 200 nodes and not "distributable". The parsing is done via serverside, using Dmitry's Optimus. I see myself rewriting this to link the Ident engine and JIT toolkit (see footer) to achieve the same results but much faster. :) Cheers, Andr? Lu?s > Glenn > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org [mailto:microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org] On Behalf Of Andr? Lu?s > Sent: 07 October 2009 16:19 > To: Microformats Discuss > Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] Ident Engine > > Glenn, > > thank you (once again) for your effort. > > This is *huge*. I believe it *does* lower the barrier of using > identity discovery. Specially given the level of interest around js. > And thank you for including a note on progressive enhancement on your > ALA article. ;) > > Meanwhile, I've pimped the lib around the office and some of them are > sending me feeback on some of the tests they ran. Would you be > interested in checking some of the faulty results? One of them got a > sgn:// "template" URLs from myspace in one of your demos. > > Cheers, > -- > Andr? Lu?s > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Glenn Jones wrote: >> Hi All >> >> I have built a little JavaScript library that combines Social Graph data >> and parsing of open data sources such as microformats. >> >> http://identengine.com/ >> http://www.alistapart.com/articles/discovering-magic/ >> >> Earlier this year Chris Messina made the passing comment that the >> techniques I demoed involved too much hoop jumping to be of practical >> use. I built this library to see if I could lower the barrier of entry. >> A List Apart published an article I have written on the libraries >> architecture. >> >> The library makes extensive use of both the Google's Social Graph API >> and Yahoo's YQL. It all under a MIT license >> >> Try out the demo's >> >> Glenn Jones >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> microformats-discuss mailing list >> microformats-discuss@microformats.org >> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss >> > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > From nick_levinson at yahoo.com Thu Oct 8 08:23:47 2009 From: nick_levinson at yahoo.com (Nick Levinson) Date: Thu Oct 8 08:23:52 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] hCard as page owner's: what signifies Message-ID: <232908.90990.qm@web33503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> How do I mark an hCard as being the page owner's? I need a method that can be used simultaneously with marking it as representative, content author, and page contact. I didn't see a method on . It can't be what's left over after the other three types are signified, since many people who fit none of the four types may be on one page with their own hCards. Thank you. -- Nick From nick_levinson at yahoo.com Thu Oct 8 08:22:59 2009 From: nick_levinson at yahoo.com (Nick Levinson) Date: Thu Oct 8 08:29:43 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] simpler markup for representative hCard Message-ID: <215604.79619.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm creating several websites of my own and there'll likely be an hCard for me, but I probably won't use it to link to a page about me (I'm largely a hermit). As I understand your specs, what necessarily makes an hCard a representative hCard is assigning classes uid and url to an element within the hCard. Or if I don't put a link into the element with classes url and uid, do I assign class uid but not url? Or am I supposed to have a link and therefore if no other link is available I should write a recursive link to the page with the hCard just to be sure there's a link, even though it won't do anything if a visitor clicks on it? Thank you. -- Nick From eric at meyerweb.com Thu Oct 8 08:53:22 2009 From: eric at meyerweb.com (Eric A. Meyer) Date: Thu Oct 8 08:53:29 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] hRecipe on FoodNetwork.com In-Reply-To: <1b7e4d860910050833k14144679y411283f14c1cce10@mail.gmail.com> References: <1b7e4d860910050833k14144679y411283f14c1cce10@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: At 11:33 AM -0400 10/5/09, Mark Wunsch wrote: >You can now view recipes from the likes of Food Network Kitchens, >Alton Brown, Bobby Flay, Giada De Laurentiis, Paula Deen, Rachael Ray, >Mario Batali, Emeril Lagasse, and more in a wonderful machine-readable >form. This is awesome news, Mark-- thank you for all your work in deploying it! Plus anything that involves Alton Brown is automatically cool in my book. -- Eric A. Meyer (eric@meyerweb.com) http://meyerweb.com/ From kevinmarks at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 12:08:10 2009 From: kevinmarks at gmail.com (Kevin Marks) Date: Thu Oct 8 12:08:15 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Ident Engine In-Reply-To: References: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF03B1B8C0@MOBY.Clarence.local> <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF03B1BD77@MOBY.Clarence.local> Message-ID: <73766b160910081208k235eb531y28807f62f26631af@mail.gmail.com> Great stuff glenn! 2009/10/8 Andr? Lu?s > > Hi Glenn, > > comments inline. > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Glenn Jones wrote: > > Hi Andr? > > > > Thanks for the nice comments about the identity work. Can you email me a quick summary of the errors off the list and I will have look. > > > > You deserve it. And I will ask them for details and fwd them to you. > > > Like microformats one of the aims of identity consolidation should be to surface the data so that it is not hidden from the user. ?This is especially important when rel=me linking goes wrong, users want to explore the issue themselves. I had this conversation Brad Fitzpatrick the creator of the Google Social Graph API earlier this year. We both agreed we need to build some sort of visualisation tool to explore social graphs. > > > > I think I have achieved this for profiles with Ident Engines. You can see what profile information is store about you and where, but I have yet to look at visualisation of the rel=me linkages. More importantly found a way to allow users to explore issues with their own graph. > > > > The tool I use the most at the moment is: > > > > http://identengine.com/debug/debug-identites.htm > > > > It's only a linear list, but sometimes help me find rogue relationships > > > > Right! At least it allows people to take care of the "weeds" in their > social graph. Funny. One of the comments I heard when someone was > trying it out was: "hey! I've told them [whoever they might be] to > remove that site/link!!" hahaha Apparently he didn't know someone was > still linking an extinct website as his somewhere. :) The example one I built when we launched the SG API can be quite handy too, as it shows degree of connectedness too, and inbound-only : http://socialgraph-resources.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/findyours.html eg http://socialgraph-resources.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/findyours.html?q=kevinmarks.com BTW, your code isn't finding the hCard on kevinmarks.com > > As for visualization of the social graph, I've been using > http://workshop.andr3.net/xfnexplorer/ but it's very very slow, > limited to 200 nodes and not "distributable". The parsing is done via > serverside, using Dmitry's Optimus. I see myself rewriting this to > link the Ident engine and JIT toolkit (see footer) to achieve the same > results but much faster. :) > > Cheers, > Andr? Lu?s > > > Glenn > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org [mailto:microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org] On Behalf Of Andr? Lu?s > > Sent: 07 October 2009 16:19 > > To: Microformats Discuss > > Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] Ident Engine > > > > Glenn, > > > > thank you (once again) for your effort. > > > > This is *huge*. I believe it *does* lower the barrier of using > > identity discovery. Specially given the level of interest around js. > > And thank you for including a note on progressive enhancement on your > > ALA article. ;) > > > > Meanwhile, I've pimped the lib around the office and some of them are > > sending me feeback on some of the tests they ran. Would you be > > interested in checking some of the faulty results? One of them got a > > sgn:// "template" URLs from myspace in one of your demos. > > > > Cheers, > > -- > > Andr? Lu?s > > > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Glenn Jones wrote: > >> Hi All > >> > >> I have built a little JavaScript library that combines Social Graph data > >> and parsing of open data sources such as microformats. > >> > >> http://identengine.com/ > >> http://www.alistapart.com/articles/discovering-magic/ > >> > >> Earlier this year Chris Messina made the passing comment that the > >> techniques I demoed involved too much hoop jumping to be of practical > >> use. I built this library to see if I could lower the barrier of entry. > >> A List Apart published an article I have written on the libraries > >> architecture. > >> > >> The library makes extensive use of both the Google's Social Graph API > >> and Yahoo's YQL. It all under a MIT license > >> > >> Try out the demo's > >> > >> Glenn Jones > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> microformats-discuss mailing list > >> microformats-discuss@microformats.org > >> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > microformats-discuss mailing list > > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From martin at weborganics.co.uk Thu Oct 8 16:21:32 2009 From: martin at weborganics.co.uk (Martin McEvoy) Date: Thu Oct 8 16:21:31 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] hCard as page owner's: what signifies In-Reply-To: <232908.90990.qm@web33503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <232908.90990.qm@web33503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4ACE73FC.9000400@weborganics.co.uk> Hello Nick, Nick Levinson wrote: > How do I mark an hCard as being the page owner's? I need a method that can be used simultaneously with marking it as representative, content author, and page contact. > > I didn't see a method on . It can't be what's left over after the other three types are signified, since many people who fit none of the four types may be on one page with their own hCards. > > Thank you. > The most common way of doing this I have found is just adding a rel="me" to the page owners hcard some examples in the wild are : Social networks: http://www.last.fm/user/steveganz steve.ganz.name http://identi.ca/csarven http://csarven.ca/ http://twitter.com/mollydotcom http://molly.com/ Blogs and home pages: http://www.ablognotlimited.com/ A Blog Not Limited http://kevinmarks.com/ Kevin Marks http://adactio.com/journal/ Adactio Hope that helps Best wishes -- Martin McEvoy http://weborganics.co.uk/ "You may find it hard to swallow the notion that anything as large and apparently inanimate as the Earth is alive." Dr. James Lovelock, The Ages of Gaia From singpolyma at singpolyma.net Thu Oct 8 17:19:51 2009 From: singpolyma at singpolyma.net (Stephen Paul Weber) Date: Thu Oct 8 17:19:58 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] simpler markup for representative hCard In-Reply-To: <215604.79619.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <215604.79619.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20091009001951.GB23610@singpolyma-mini> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Somebody claiming to be Nick Levinson wrote: > Or am I supposed to have a link and therefore if no other link is available I should write a recursive link to the page with the hCard just to be sure there's a link, even though it won't do anything if a visitor clicks on it? This is how the uid+url method works. The alternative, as you saw, is rel=me to some other page of yours. - -- Stephen Paul Weber, @singpolyma See for how I prefer to be contacted edition right joseph -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJKzoGmAAoJENEcKRHOUZzeNkwP/3nXzYQtARnWBKLIn+0eM68K jTUBd62M3+W4attj7HdWCl1iCy+X0ZbfYM9CMUdXxBUvw+IkvYvb3bTmJ93eRuei LLzEaMOX82UAcgzIVV/wa3X9uidPAhXzxKs9xyV0iu0XuwyGi6Q7d52yYg8yBw6V L7yTje04x0Q/3E2b0srhuRnKg74uJSqQhM9qeYEa0j/G5h2TVCv9rPFRkXdgW2Fd eaHMMWWI0T6hHLCjG0hNFHmdSXfnYqeTgHg91rrhhpWHTTGkcCOSmONQyOMn/sHw BrXPODf+qQsDw5Kn523ijLEyIBosug5V248JCsYqK97jXu6hYbqWEd4poeKK7MNP 2ZK3ZoCKwzoAH/hqUAWwm3AxK/+kXvJOoNtuBuI/16ov48iy6K5msTzvUcP0vljx k5CluIlQ+M0kGy5qA9FspthLxbJnga2IjebcgY0M6RDrI4j+WHUBSLQwZky3qqW3 VgMfYjg2J/VyJpTK9diVWyGQJ1G/7TGnR9OaqPyce0ZfeJCyxlBdBAw6AssIYDjD fZqBm8I8pC8duIL6mZGYSLaleQ1vP89xvApLlMp/YuLIF4IraeWdrlH5uFHr3DZ+ 3kA/J+diPMSy80i9LdT87X5gAMchDQq7bgHIBPPEvqGkGyXMx8teUZ/jOs/dZDyL 304BQKLWS+remPc8T3d+ =PMRI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tantek at cs.stanford.edu Sat Oct 10 00:14:01 2009 From: tantek at cs.stanford.edu (=?UTF-8?Q?Tantek_=C3=87elik?=) Date: Sat Oct 10 00:14:24 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] hRecipe on FoodNetwork.com In-Reply-To: <1b7e4d860910050833k14144679y411283f14c1cce10@mail.gmail.com> References: <1b7e4d860910050833k14144679y411283f14c1cce10@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <60cb038a0910100014jcc53230hecf528c6057a6555@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Mark Wunsch wrote: > Hello Microformaters, > > I'm really pleased to announce that FoodNetwork.com has recently > rolled out hRecipe on its recipes! We've been observing the > development of hRecipe and thank Thomas Loertsch, et al. for the great > work in detailing the specification. We hope our implementation helps > move the draft to a full-fledged standard. Mark, this is great news! And every real world example use of a microformat certainly helps both demonstrate its usefulness, and discover the challenges encountered when a draft proposal is implemented with real content. Please feel free to add your experiences here: http://microformats.org/wiki/hrecipe-issues by either adding to existing issues, or opening new issues for any problems you encountered. I'll also add my thanks to Thomas and everyone else who has contributed to hRecipe. > You can now view recipes from the likes of Food Network Kitchens, > Alton Brown, Bobby Flay, Giada De Laurentiis, Paula Deen, Rachael Ray, > Mario Batali, Emeril Lagasse, and more in a wonderful machine-readable > form. > > It is the goal of Scripps Networks Interactive (NASDAQ: SNI) to be the > world's largest distributor of hRecipe marked recipes before the end > of Q2 2010 when we roll out the spec on http://www.recipezaar.com. This too is great news. I noticed that the reviews of recipes are also marked up with hReview (and reviewers with hCard). > Anxious to hear comments, feedback, and anything we can do to help the > microformats community. Great work! Do you have an estimate for how many recipes are now on Foodnetwork.com? I have added Foodnetwork.com to the list of recipe sites "in the wild" that support hRecipe: http://microformats.org/wiki/hrecipe#Examples_in_the_wild Thanks again for your excellent work Mark! Tantek http://tantek.com/ From martin at weborganics.co.uk Sat Oct 10 20:19:28 2009 From: martin at weborganics.co.uk (Martin McEvoy) Date: Sat Oct 10 20:19:27 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] value-title feedback Message-ID: <4AD14EC0.4090703@weborganics.co.uk> Hello All, I have been trying to implement the value-title pattern over at GetSemantic [1] (The next version of Transformr) and stumbled across a problem. Simply adding a space eg: still results in HTML-Tidy discarding the value as suggested here: http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#Parsing_machine-data_value-title, because Tidy (by default) drops all empty elements, with no character data. here is a live example of what happens, source: http://microformats.org/2009/10/06/recently-2009-09 markup: Tuesday, October 6th, 2009 at 4:19 pm after tidying : http://cgi.w3.org/cgi-bin/tidy?docAddr=http://microformats.org/2009/10/06/recently-2009-09 Tuesday, October 6th, 2009 at 4:19 pm The only way I have found to stop this from occurring is either don't use tidy, which in some cases makes the source document impossible to parse if the html is invalid, or add a   instead of a space eg:   which seems a little unintuitive to me. ....hmm? Thanks -- Martin McEvoy http://weborganics.co.uk/ "You may find it hard to swallow the notion that anything as large and apparently inanimate as the Earth is alive." Dr. James Lovelock, The Ages of Gaia From lists at ben-ward.co.uk Sat Oct 10 20:39:11 2009 From: lists at ben-ward.co.uk (Ben Ward) Date: Sat Oct 10 20:39:16 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] value-title feedback In-Reply-To: <4AD14EC0.4090703@weborganics.co.uk> References: <4AD14EC0.4090703@weborganics.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi Martin, Thanks for the feedback. Is this a new build of Tidy, do you know? Certainly, it did get tested (although we were always aware putting a space in was a workaround.) On 10 Oct 2009, at 20:19, Martin McEvoy wrote: >   > > which seems a little unintuitive to me. ....hmm? The further problem with that is that the non-breaking space will render, thus exposing the data in the tooltip. Uuuugh. My view is bluntly that we should abandon emphasis on the ?space? hack. It's really there more for authors with CMS whose content gets proxied through HTMLTidy before publication. Parsers really need to deal with it parse the element in all circumstances. Plausible solutions: 1. Ages I wrote a patch for HTMLTidy that fixes the dropping behavior and does not drop empty elements that also have class attributes. With that you can build tidy without the dropping. The obvious question: For your parser, is it feasible to link to a bundled version of tidy rather than the system version? The diff to patch Tidy is here: (or a compiled version of Tidy with this patch applied can be downloaded form here: 2. Alternatively, can you use a different HTML parser? Perhaps the native HTML DOM parsing function in PHP, or HTML5lib in Python and Ruby? . I'm keen to update the value-class-pattern documentation to make this less fuzzy. Will await further feedback here, though. Cheers, Ben From lists at ben-ward.co.uk Fri Oct 16 16:24:30 2009 From: lists at ben-ward.co.uk (Ben Ward) Date: Fri Oct 16 16:24:43 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Concerning the Technorati pipes Message-ID: <4E7C333D-F436-49F0-A7B6-1FDBC90A7B9E@ben-ward.co.uk> I've been fielding this question quite a lot over the past few days, since the recent Technorati.com redesign appears to have killed the landing pages for their contacts and events microformat pipes. I've heard from a number of people that they rely on the service and are concerned about it. I don't know what Technorati's plan is for the service, whether they are going to remove it, stop supporting it or whether the missing landing pages are just a configuration error. What is known is this: 1. The actual pipes themselves are still live and operational: * http://feeds.technorati.com/contacts/http://microformats.org * http://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/events Those URLs return 404s if you don't include the target URL. 2. For those concerned or with a reliance on Technorati's service: The Technorati pipes run Brian Suda's awesome, free and open source X2V transformer. As well as it running hosted on his personal site (http://suda.co.uk/projects/x2v , not recommended for production use?it's a little unfair to use Brian's personal site as a service) but you can also SELF-HOST the code as part of your own set-up, without any changes to your applications. There are also other transformers (Optimus, for example). So, I hope that provides a little info for people who might be concerned. If anyone from Technorati or who has a contact at Technorati could get actual clarity on the fate of the service that would be great, but the most important thing is that the code is open, and I hope the information in this email helps people out in maintaining their applications. Thanks, Ben From tantek at cs.stanford.edu Fri Oct 16 17:55:38 2009 From: tantek at cs.stanford.edu (Tantek Celik) Date: Fri Oct 16 17:55:51 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Concerning the Technorati pipes In-Reply-To: <4E7C333D-F436-49F0-A7B6-1FDBC90A7B9E@ben-ward.co.uk> References: <4E7C333D-F436-49F0-A7B6-1FDBC90A7B9E@ben-ward.co.uk> Message-ID: <2113218076-1255740941-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1149062126-@bda080.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Apologies for the top post. 1. TR Ops contacted, no ETA. I've contacted the folks in Technorati Ops who maintain the X2V services and they are aware of the problem and it's on their list of post-relaunch things to fix. No ETA. 2. H2VX. I've been thinking for a while that we need more than one production open conversion service and thus just picked up h2vx.com (not setup yet) to host another deploy of Brian Suda's excellent open source X2V XSLT files for generating vcf and ics (at least for now, I can add rss and atom converters for hAtom later, perhaps when the spec has been updated with required value class pattern date time support per: http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#hAtom_updated_implied_date ) 3. X2V setup docs. I'm taking notes on this set up of X2V onto a new server, and in the interest of helping/encouraging others to host their own, either for their own content or as open web service, am documenting my notes here: http://microformats.org/wiki/x2v#install Tantek -----Original Message----- From: Ben Ward Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:24:30 To: Microformats Discuss Subject: [uf-discuss] Concerning the Technorati pipes I've been fielding this question quite a lot over the past few days, since the recent Technorati.com redesign appears to have killed the landing pages for their contacts and events microformat pipes. I've heard from a number of people that they rely on the service and are concerned about it. I don't know what Technorati's plan is for the service, whether they are going to remove it, stop supporting it or whether the missing landing pages are just a configuration error. What is known is this: 1. The actual pipes themselves are still live and operational: * http://feeds.technorati.com/contacts/http://microformats.org * http://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://microformats.org/wiki/events Those URLs return 404s if you don't include the target URL. 2. For those concerned or with a reliance on Technorati's service: The Technorati pipes run Brian Suda's awesome, free and open source X2V transformer. As well as it running hosted on his personal site (http://suda.co.uk/projects/x2v , not recommended for production use?it's a little unfair to use Brian's personal site as a service) but you can also SELF-HOST the code as part of your own set-up, without any changes to your applications. There are also other transformers (Optimus, for example). So, I hope that provides a little info for people who might be concerned. If anyone from Technorati or who has a contact at Technorati could get actual clarity on the fate of the service that would be great, but the most important thing is that the code is open, and I hope the information in this email helps people out in maintaining their applications. Thanks, Ben _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss From tdrake at yahoo-inc.com Mon Oct 19 09:20:33 2009 From: tdrake at yahoo-inc.com (Ted Drake) Date: Mon Oct 19 09:21:01 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] Concerning the Technorati pipes In-Reply-To: <2113218076-1255740941-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1149062126-@bda080.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <4E7C333D-F436-49F0-A7B6-1FDBC90A7B9E@ben-ward.co.uk> <2113218076-1255740941-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1149062126-@bda080.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org [mailto:microformats-discuss-bounces@microformats.org] On Behalf Of Tantek Celik 2. H2VX. I've been thinking for a while that we need more than one production open conversion service and thus just picked up h2vx.com (not setup yet) to host another deploy of Brian Suda's excellent open source X2V XSLT files for generating vcf and ics (at least for now, I can add rss and atom converters for hAtom later, perhaps when the spec has been updated with required value class pattern date time support per: http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#hAtom_updated_implied_d ate ) Tantek ------------------------ Tantek This sounds like something Google App Engines may be able to host. I'm not familiar with that package, but it would be worth investigating. Ted From oncemade at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 14:22:39 2009 From: oncemade at gmail.com (Rodrigo Soares) Date: Thu Oct 22 14:22:46 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] hreview rating question In-Reply-To: <972245870910221413s2ee7e81fx28c973dd3261babd@mail.gmail.com> References: <972245870910221413s2ee7e81fx28c973dd3261babd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <972245870910221422n40f117faib39f724deac76d44@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, I was wondering if it's valid to use percentage and/or letters values for rating instead of 1-5. eg:

Average Rating: B+

Or

Rating: 83%

Thanks, Rodrigo Soares UI Engineer at MySpace.com From brian.suda at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 02:05:48 2009 From: brian.suda at gmail.com (Brian Suda) Date: Fri Oct 23 02:05:52 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] hreview rating question In-Reply-To: <972245870910221422n40f117faib39f724deac76d44@mail.gmail.com> References: <972245870910221413s2ee7e81fx28c973dd3261babd@mail.gmail.com> <972245870910221422n40f117faib39f724deac76d44@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <21e770780910230205j6c4fe72ahdb2a15cff2c98a80@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:22 PM, Rodrigo Soares wrote: > Hi All, > I was wondering if it's valid to use percentage and/or letters values > for rating instead of 1-5. >

Rating: 83%

--- There is a way to label best and worst, so you could say 83% out of 100%. >

Average Rating: B+

--- That gets around 1-5, but there isn't really away to make a sliding scale for letter values. A,B,C,D, but where does B+ go? and is there an A- or an F+? the scale isn't smooth like it is with numeric values. I hope that helps, -brian -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk From James.C.Johnson at idearc.com Wed Oct 28 12:42:02 2009 From: James.C.Johnson at idearc.com (Johnson, James C) Date: Wed Oct 28 12:42:11 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] hListing on EveryCarListed.com Message-ID: Greetings Microformat Community, We're pleased to announce that EveryCarListed.com has recently rolled out it's implementation of hListing for every car that's listed on the site. This represents almost 2 million new hListings for new and used cars and we hope this is helpful to the future standards of hListing. We'd like to thank Tantek Celik for his valuable input and time helping us implement this. We are excited to see the full standard of hListing once it is out of draft, and we are excited to be an early adopter of this particular microformat. EveryCarListed.com's goal with microformats is to be on the forefront of implementing this standard and we hope the Microformat Community accepts our implementation. We look forward to input from the community. Please let us know if we can do anything to help with the implementation and how we can give back! James C. Johnson | Search Architect | Idearc Media LLC From brian.suda at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 01:03:38 2009 From: brian.suda at gmail.com (Brian Suda) Date: Fri Oct 30 01:03:49 2009 Subject: [uf-discuss] hListing on EveryCarListed.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <21e770780910300203q372fb1aeu8397db3306495c33@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Johnson, James C wrote: > We're pleased to announce that EveryCarListed.com has recently rolled > out it's implementation of hListing for every car that's listed on the > site. --- that's great news, congrats! > We are excited to see the full standard of hListing once it is out of > draft --- please be sure to document your finds on the wiki. In your 2 million listing you'll probably find issues and things that were not thought of originally. If we document these unknown usage then it will be easier to adapt and move the format further. Thanks and well done! -brian -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk From tantek at cs.stanford.edu Sat Oct 31 09:40:16 2009 From: tantek at cs.stanford.edu (=?UTF-8?Q?Tantek_=C3=87elik?=) Date: Sat Oct 31 09:40:39 2009 Subject: H2VX.com is feature complete. was Re: [uf-discuss] Concerning the Technorati pipes Message-ID: <60cb038a0910311040j30fb1ac1vc2496b8957ef2c1@mail.gmail.com> Quick update: H2VX.com is up, serving vCards and iCalendars, and also has new browser buttons (AKA favelets/bookmarklets) that submit the current page to it to be converted. Details: Re: 1. TR Ops contacted. I still have no update from Technorati. Now that H2VX has an updated UI and converter, I'm going to ask the folks at Technorati to simply redirect technorati.com/contacts and /events to h2vx.com/vcf and /ics respectively as I'm sure that a simple redirect directive is more likely to survive any future site changes. I'm certainly open to alternative suggestions. > 2. H2VX. I've been thinking for a while that we need more than one > production open conversion service and thus just picked up h2vx.com (not > setup yet) to host another deploy of Brian Suda's excellent open source > X2V XSLT files for generating vcf and ics (at least for now, I can add > rss and atom converters for hAtom later, perhaps when the spec has been > updated with required value class pattern date time support per: > http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#hAtom_updated_implied_d > ate ) As noted, H2VX.com conversion of hCards and hCalendar events is now up and running. I've setup a separate Twitter for H2VX status updates for those you using H2VX.com links on your sites for conversions. http://twitter.com/h2vx Please add any feedback or issues to: http://microformats.org/wiki/h2vx I'm considering H2VX.com feature complete at this point and will make only minor incremental changes/fixes as reported. If folks write new XSLTs to handles more conversions, we can certainly take a look at setting them up (e.g. an hNews or hAtom + value-class-pattern to Atom or RSS converter). Re: 3. X2V setup docs. I've taken copious notes on what was needed to setup X2V, as well as written a bunch of new PHP and javascript to do so with an improved UI. As time permits I'll add these to: http://microformats.org/wiki/x2v#install However for now, I'm going to return to closing resolved hCard and hCalendar issues and writing up the hCard and hCalendar 1.0.1 updates - which are already a month later than I wanted them to be. If anyone urgently needs/wants to setup another X2V instance, let me know, and perhaps we can work through the details on IRC (http://microformats.org/wiki/irc). On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Ted Drake wrote: > Tantek > > This sounds like something Google App Engines may be able to host. I'm > not familiar with that package, but it would be worth investigating. It would be nice to setup an X2V instance on Google App Engines, but AFAIK Google App Engines does not yet support XSLT. Thanks, Tantek -- http://tantek.com/