From bbtommorris at gmail.com Mon Jan 11 02:14:59 2010 From: bbtommorris at gmail.com (Tom Morris) Date: Mon Jan 11 02:15:14 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Practical Examples of Project Outlines in XOXO Format In-Reply-To: <934CB9EA-DBD0-4BD2-BE96-58D1361DC309@gmail.com> References: <934CB9EA-DBD0-4BD2-BE96-58D1361DC309@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 16:51, Doug Reeder wrote: > This seems like it ought to be an FAQ, but I've had no luck searching for > this nor following links. > > I'm writing a productivity tool which can import XOXO outlines, and it works > fine for the small examples on the XOXO wiki, and re-importing outlines > exported from itself. ?I'd like to test it with realistic examples, such as > outlines written with something like MORE (for Mac OS Classic) or > BrainForest for Palm OS. ?I'm especially interested in outlines with > metadata. ? Where can I find such examples? > I came at XOXO from the outliner perspective - OmniOutliner, Frontier/Radio/OPML.app etc. - and found it difficult to get my head around the conversion between the two. Tantek asked me back in 2007 to add my thoughts on XOXO<->OPML mapping and interop to xoxo-brainstorming on the wiki. I've moved them over now to xoxo-opml-issues - http://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo-opml-issues (Sorry about the slow response - my Drafts folder is a scraggly wilderness of ineptitude, this reply has sit here for over a month!) -- Tom Morris From info at csarven.ca Fri Jan 15 06:01:39 2010 From: info at csarven.ca (Sarven Capadisli) Date: Fri Jan 15 06:01:47 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] geo shorthand in anchor In-Reply-To: <60cb038a0912310710o3287b374h6e48226af499d3b4@mail.gmail.com> References: <1261936306.2543.29.camel@csarven-laptop> <21e770780912271046i3bedc485m59aee2df1c469bc0@mail.gmail.com> <1262206249.4426.96.camel@csarven-laptop> <21e770780912301354h2b1c638fj7019592fc17f6fb@mail.gmail.com> <1262210946.9728.14.camel@csarven-laptop> <21e770780912301430p71b37da9i93ccd7acd658d9c1@mail.gmail.com> <1262259010.4580.28.camel@csarven-laptop> <60cb038a0912310710o3287b374h6e48226af499d3b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1263564099.2546.24.camel@csarven-laptop> On Thu, 2009-12-31 at 07:10 -0800, Tantek ?elik wrote: > One quick bit of feedback on this thread (which I'll also note on the > wiki next to the examples added) - use of the title attribute for > semicolon separated lat-long may not be the user-friendliest thing to > do. > > Given microformats experience with various uses of the the title > attribute - a good rule of thumb is to check to make sure that the > content you are putting into the title attribute is both reasonably > human readable and listenable. I've noted my observations on your observations http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=geo-brainstorming&diff=41657&oldid=41586 re: your notes in the Wiki, could you explain how (lat:45.5140800; long -73.6111000) is more user friendly than title="45.5140800;-73.6111000" ? I see two things there: 1. changing the problem i.e., intended visible readable text content 2. "45.5140800" and "-73.6111000" as text values is no more human readable and listenable than as "45.5140800;-73.6111000" title value. -Sarven From research at gidgreen.com Mon Jan 18 03:05:14 2010 From: research at gidgreen.com (Gideon Greenspan) Date: Mon Jan 18 03:05:20 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Microformats for Q&A sites Message-ID: <4B54406A.9070600@gidgreen.com> Hi there, I'm currently polishing a free PHP/MySQL platform for Question & Answer sites (www.question2answer.org) and want to implement microformats to the maximum extent possible. The whole point of Q&A is to structure forum-style discussions better, so microformat integration should enable aggregation and ranking of Q&A-style content across all sites that deploy my platform (and indeed others). I'm spending a lot of time in the microformats wiki and doing my best to implement standard elements where possible. For example, a question page (that also shows related answers) will be a series of CLASS="hentry" elements. Some other elements that work well: entry-title, entry-content, rel=tag, published and author. But there are a bunch of things that I want to make semantically available to machine readers that don't seem to touch on any of the microformat standards. For example: (a) to denote that a particular hentry is a question or an answer, (b) to flag one particular answer as the one that was selected as the best, (c) to show the net total of votes (any +/- integer) received by a question or answer. What's the most appropriate way for me to proceed? I *could* start making elements up and modifying pages in the wiki, but I feel I should be treading more lightly until I become more familiar with microformat culture and practice. Thanks in advance for any assistance. Gideon -- Gideon Greenspan http://www.gidgreen.com/ From glenn.jones at madgex.com Tue Jan 19 01:47:47 2010 From: glenn.jones at madgex.com (Glenn Jones) Date: Tue Jan 19 01:49:30 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Two more site support hResume import Message-ID: <36A319113CF910438942741C4727ADFF040A24AF@MOBY.Clarence.local> We have launched two more sites that support hResume import After the successful launch of http://jobs.guardian.co.uk/profile/ in September we have started building similar (CV Search and Match) sites for other clients. The latest two launched yesterday. http://careercv.mad.co.uk/ http://www.cvmatch4jobs.com/ I thought that people on the list would like to hear about our attempts to support hResume in our commercial sites. From this point I will just add any similar implementations to the hResume wiki page. Glenn Jones From angelo at gladding.name Wed Jan 20 16:47:46 2010 From: angelo at gladding.name (Angelo Gladding) Date: Wed Jan 20 17:17:42 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Microformats for Q&A sites In-Reply-To: <4B54406A.9070600@gidgreen.com> References: <4B54406A.9070600@gidgreen.com> Message-ID: > For example, a question page (that also shows related answers) will be a series of CLASS="hentry" elements. Some other elements that work well: entry-title, entry-content, rel=tag, published and author. To clarify, hAtom [1] specifies a standard for episodic content. `hentry` is, in a sense, on par with `entry-title`, `entry-content`, and the others. `hentry` alone is normatively meaningless without the specified required properties ? check out the cheatsheet [2] for a quick reference if you haven't already. [1]: http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom [2]: http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-cheatsheet > But there are a bunch of things that I want to make semantically available to machine readers that don't seem to touch on any of the microformat standards. ... I *could* start making elements up and modifying pages in the wiki, but I feel I should be treading more lightly until I become more familiar with microformat culture and practice. Read the process [3] first if you haven't already. [3]: http://microformats.org/wiki/process > For example: (a) to denote that a particular hentry is a question or an answer, (b) to flag one particular answer as the one that was selected as the best, (c) to show the net total of votes (any +/- integer) received by a question or answer. Check out the Q&A brainstorming [4], contribute in that dimly lit corner, and elicit feedback here rather than poking at hAtom's spec. Also consider using vote-links [5] via fragment identifiers. Confirm the feasibility of that method via the spec. "Best" and "total" shouldn't be too difficult to determine algorithmically once votes are represented. [4]: http://microformats.org/wiki/question-answer-brainstorming [5]: http://microformats.org/wiki/vote-links Lastly, mark up your home page with a representative hCard [6] and a `rel-me` to your LinkedIn. Then implement the hAtom (and associated hCard) semantics on said Q&A pages and do similar for the user pages, validate everything, and don't hesitate to come back with questions or feedback related to non-standard pursuits. [6]: http://microformats.org/wiki/representative-hcard If you'd like to contact me privately I'd be very interested in further discussing decentralized aggregation. I have recently sent a yet to be answered request for Microformats to Stack Overflow. Let me know if any of that helps. On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 3:05 AM, Gideon Greenspan wrote: > > Hi there, > > I'm currently polishing a free PHP/MySQL platform for Question & Answer sites (www.question2answer.org) and want to implement microformats to the maximum extent possible. The whole point of Q&A is to structure forum-style discussions better, so microformat integration should enable aggregation and ranking of Q&A-style content across all sites that deploy my platform (and indeed others). > > I'm spending a lot of time in the microformats wiki and doing my best to implement standard elements where possible. For example, a question page (that also shows related answers) will be a series of CLASS="hentry" elements. Some other elements that work well: entry-title, entry-content, rel=tag, published and author. > > But there are a bunch of things that I want to make semantically available to machine readers that don't seem to touch on any of the microformat standards. For example: (a) to denote that a particular hentry is a question or an answer, (b) to flag one particular answer as the one that was selected as the best, (c) to show the net total of votes (any +/- integer) received by a question or answer. > > What's the most appropriate way for me to proceed? I *could* start making elements up and modifying pages in the wiki, but I feel I should be treading more lightly until I become more familiar with microformat culture and practice. > > Thanks in advance for any assistance. > > Gideon > > > -- > Gideon Greenspan > http://www.gidgreen.com/ > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss -- Angelo Gladding angelo@gladding.name http://angelo.gladding.name/ From research at gidgreen.com Wed Jan 20 22:45:40 2010 From: research at gidgreen.com (Gideon Greenspan) Date: Wed Jan 20 22:45:46 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Re: Microformats for Q&A sites In-Reply-To: <201001210120.o0L1JvoG007960@microformats.org> References: <201001210120.o0L1JvoG007960@microformats.org> Message-ID: <4B57F814.9050203@gidgreen.com> Angelo, Thanks a lot for your reply. I thought I'd reply to the mailing list for now, since some of this might be of general interest. >> For example, a question page (that also shows related answers) will >> be a series of CLASS="hentry" elements. Some other elements that work >> well: entry-title, entry-content, rel=tag, published and author. > > To clarify, hAtom [1] specifies a standard for episodic content. > `hentry` is, in a sense, on par with `entry-title`, `entry-content`, > and the others. `hentry` alone is normatively meaningless without the > specified required properties - check out the cheatsheet [2] for a > quick reference if you haven't already. > > [1]: http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom > [2]: http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-cheatsheet Yes, I've been implementing hAtom as much as possible. In social Q&A sites (like Stack Overflow, which you mention), a question is analogous to a forum thread, which is episodic content, so that's how I'm structuring the microformats for Question2Answer. But I also need to indicate (a) - (c) immediately below, which don't appear to have any place in hAtom. >> For example: (a) to denote that a particular hentry is a question >> or an answer, (b) to flag one particular answer as the one that was >> selected as the best, (c) to show the net total of votes (any ? >> integer) received by a question or answer. > > Check out the Q&A brainstorming [4], contribute in that dimly lit > corner, and elicit feedback here rather than poking at hAtom's spec. > Also consider using vote-links [5] via fragment identifiers. Confirm > the feasibility of that method via the spec. "Best" and "total" > shouldn't be too difficult to determine algorithmically once votes are > represented. > > [4]: http://microformats.org/wiki/question-answer-brainstorming > [5]: http://microformats.org/wiki/vote-links Thanks - I wasn't aware of those two pages, and I'll see what I can contribute to the Questions and Answers brainstorming page. Unfortunately vote-links doesn't look suitable, since I don't want to reveal *who* voted on questions and answers, just the aggregate information. > Lastly, mark up your home page with a representative hCard [6] and a > `rel-me` to your LinkedIn. Then implement the hAtom (and associated > hCard) semantics on said Q&A pages and do similar for the user pages, > validate everything, and don't hesitate to come back with questions or > feedback related to non-standard pursuits. > > [6]: http://microformats.org/wiki/representative-hcard Thanks - I'll look into that too. Another issue is that there are a bunch of important statistics on the user pages, that a Q&A search engine could use to build a reputation rating. Examples: number of questions/answers posted, number of votes given/received, total points. These are natural candidates for microformats, but I couldn't find any kind of prior work on this that I can draw on. Best regards, Gideon -- Gideon Greenspan http://www.gidgreen.com/ From angelo at gladding.name Thu Jan 21 19:06:50 2010 From: angelo at gladding.name (Angelo Gladding) Date: Thu Jan 21 19:14:33 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Re: Microformats for Q&A sites In-Reply-To: <4B57F814.9050203@gidgreen.com> References: <201001210120.o0L1JvoG007960@microformats.org> <4B57F814.9050203@gidgreen.com> Message-ID: Check out the definition [1] and principles [2] pages as well if you haven't already. Pay close attention to what `microformats are not`. [1]: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats [2]: http://microformats.org/wiki/principles > Yes, I've been implementing hAtom as much as possible. In social Q&A sites (like Stack Overflow, which you mention), a question is analogous to a forum thread, which is episodic content, so that's how I'm structuring the microformats for Question2Answer. But I also need to indicate (a) - (c) ... > (a) denote that a particular hentry is a question or an answer Way too specific for hAtom considering an episode can be anything. This is where it would help to see some HTML to better understand your approach. Are/should the question and the answer(s) be contained in a single `hfeed`, explicit or implicit? I'm thinking: * home page * hfeed of popular questions * question page * hfeed implicitly defined by a standalone hentry-wrapped question * hfeed exlicitly wrapping the answers * user page * hfeed for questions * hfeed for answers That's five feeds across three pages. Are we on the same page? > (b) flag one particular answer as the one that was selected as the best I highly doubt a microformat will ever contain a boolean `best` property?? especially not hAtom. "Best" == `highest rated` to me. How about hReview [3]? Can you consider an answer's score to be a `community review` of the answer? Check out hReview's `rating` property. > rating:: The rating is a fixed point integer (one decimal point of precision) from 1.0 to 5.0 inclusive indicating a rating for the item, higher indicating a better rating by default. Optionally a different integral "worst" value and/or "best" value MAY be specified to indicate a different range (e.g. 6 from 0-10). The "best" value may be numerically smaller than the "worst" value. So each `hentry` of the `hfeed` defining a question page's answers will include a community-generated `hreview` of itself. Assuming you'll give each said `hentry` an `id` and permalink (rel-bookmark) back to this via fragment identifier you should have no problem pointing the `hreview.item` to the same fragment. Now a machine that understands hAtom and hReview can grab the feed, grab the reviews, pair the URIs, and infer the "best". [3]: http://microformats.org/wiki/hreview > (c) to show the net total of votes (any integer) received by a question or answer. Check out hReview-aggregate [4]. [4]: http://microformats.org/wiki/hreview-aggregate > Thanks - I'll look into that too. Another issue is that there are a bunch of important statistics on the user pages, that a Q&A search engine could use to build a reputation rating. Examples: number of questions/answers posted, number of votes given/received, total points. These are natural candidates for microformats, but I couldn't find any kind of prior work on this that I can draw on. Number of Q/A posted requires just tallying hentries, no? If you need to paginate them, provide `rel-me`s to the other pages and unify the feeds via a singular `rel-tag` pointing to http://answers.onstartups.com/users/123/alex-papadimoulis/answers which will tag the feed as `answers` but will make sure that user 123's `answers` and user 498's `answers` are not confused to be of the exact same feed category which might happen if you were to share the tagspace of ..ups.com/answers. `Total points` does /not/ strike me as a natural candidate for a microformat. Be weary of making such claims. Definitely read about `not boiling the ocean` and try to get us [me :)] some HTML to stare at. Welcome to the wonderful world of microformats. Angelo On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 10:45 PM, Gideon Greenspan wrote: > Angelo, > > Thanks a lot for your reply. I thought I'd reply to the mailing list for > now, since some of this might be of general interest. > >>> For example, a question page (that also shows related answers) will >>> be a series of CLASS="hentry" elements. Some other elements that work >>> well: entry-title, entry-content, rel=tag, published and author. >> >> To clarify, hAtom [1] specifies a standard for episodic content. >> `hentry` is, in a sense, on par with `entry-title`, `entry-content`, >> and the others. `hentry` alone is normatively meaningless without the >> specified required properties - check out the cheatsheet [2] for a >> quick reference if you haven't already. >> >> [1]: http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom >> [2]: http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-cheatsheet > > Yes, I've been implementing hAtom as much as possible. In social Q&A sites > (like Stack Overflow, which you mention), a question is analogous to a forum > thread, which is episodic content, so that's how I'm structuring the > microformats for Question2Answer. But I also need to indicate (a) - (c) > immediately below, which don't appear to have any place in hAtom. > >>> For example: (a) to denote that a particular hentry is a question >>> or an answer, (b) to flag one particular answer as the one that was >>> selected as the best, (c) to show the net total of votes (any ? >>> integer) received by a question or answer. >> >> Check out the Q&A brainstorming [4], contribute in that dimly lit >> corner, and elicit feedback here rather than poking at hAtom's spec. >> Also consider using vote-links [5] via fragment identifiers. Confirm >> the feasibility of that method via the spec. "Best" and "total" >> shouldn't be too difficult to determine algorithmically once votes are >> represented. >> >> [4]: http://microformats.org/wiki/question-answer-brainstorming >> [5]: http://microformats.org/wiki/vote-links > > Thanks - I wasn't aware of those two pages, and I'll see what I can > contribute to the Questions and Answers brainstorming page. Unfortunately > vote-links doesn't look suitable, since I don't want to reveal *who* voted > on questions and answers, just the aggregate information. > >> Lastly, mark up your home page with a representative hCard [6] and a >> `rel-me` to your LinkedIn. Then implement the hAtom (and associated >> hCard) semantics on said Q&A pages and do similar for the user pages, >> validate everything, and don't hesitate to come back with questions or >> feedback related to non-standard pursuits. >> >> [6]: http://microformats.org/wiki/representative-hcard > > Thanks - I'll look into that too. Another issue is that there are a bunch of > important statistics on the user pages, that a Q&A search engine could use > to build a reputation rating. Examples: number of questions/answers posted, > number of votes given/received, total points. These are natural candidates > for microformats, but I couldn't find any kind of prior work on this that I > can draw on. > > Best regards, > > Gideon > > > -- > Gideon Greenspan > http://www.gidgreen.com/ > _______________________________________________ > microformats-discuss mailing list > microformats-discuss@microformats.org > http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > -- Angelo Gladding angelo@gladding.name http://angelo.gladding.name/ From mnot at mnot.net Thu Jan 21 19:34:48 2010 From: mnot at mnot.net (Mark Nottingham) Date: Thu Jan 21 19:34:56 2010 Subject: [uf-discuss] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-nottingham-http-link-header-07.txt References: <20100119053002.55B823A6888@core3.amsl.com> Message-ID: <2A061909-2601-43CC-9F15-65E7BF9F0F12@mnot.net> [re-resending] FYI; this is the latest draft of a proposal to change how rel values are registered, aligning their use in Atom, HTML, HTTP headers and other formats. Feedback appreciated, either on the ietf-http-wg mailing list, or directly. Note that this is in second IETF Last Call. Begin forwarded message: > From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > Date: 19 January 2010 4:30:02 PM AEDT > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Subject: I-D Action:draft-nottingham-http-link-header-07.txt > Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > Title : Web Linking > Author(s) : M. Nottingham > Filename : draft-nottingham-http-link-header-07.txt > Pages : 25 > Date : 2010-01-18 > > This document specifies relation types for Web links, and defines a > registry for them. It also defines the use of such links in HTTP > headers with the Link header-field. > > Status of this Memo > > This Internet-Draft is submitted to IETF in full conformance with the > provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79. > > Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering > Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that > other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- > Drafts. > > Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months > and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any > time. 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The person(s) controlling the copyright in some of this > material may not have granted the IETF Trust the right to allow > modifications of such material outside the IETF Standards Process. > Without obtaining an adequate license from the person(s) controlling > the copyright in such materials, this document may not be modified > outside the IETF Standards Process, and derivative works of it may > not be created outside the IETF Standards Process, except to format > it for publication as an RFC or to translate it into languages other > than English. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nottingham-http-link-header-07.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. [ stripped because of microformats.org list policies ] > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt -- Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/